Сегодня Элли Лобель встречалась с доктором Евой Сапи.
- Автор темы Muss
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Muss
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А еще мне
кажется, вернее, я уверенна, что Лобель в глаза тут видели. Ее тут обсуждали и фотография была выставлена до того, как здесь появилась я. Не знаю, к чему вы написали про " в глаза " не видели. Често, не понимаю. Чувствую в этой фразе отрицательную коннотацию. В любом случае увидеть ее в глаза несложно. С уважением, Елена.
Libra
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Елена, не хотела Вас обидеть. Просто думаю, что Вы в своей приверженности выбранному Вами способу лечения пчелоужаливанием несколько перегибаете палку. На форуме есть специальный раздел, предназначенный для обсуждения различных нетрадиционных методик. И давайте все же подобные обсуждения вести именно там.
Анонсировать исследование, о котором Вы узнали тоже из "третьих рук", тоже думаю достаточно было один раз, я это уже писала.
Ага, бывает, человек увлечётся и не замечает, в какой теме пишет, но это вроде не преступление.
Muss
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Об исследовании я узнала от Элли Лобель. Она сотрудничает с Сапи. При чем тут третьи руки? Про антибиотики в исследовании тоже идет речь. Антибиотики меня также интересуют как и все остальное. С нетерпением жду эту публикацию.
Irik
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Muss, хорошо, что Вы пришли на форум с пчелами! Будут исследования или нет для многих это второй вопрос, главное , что это работает и Вам помогает! Я не понимаю людей, которые не воспринимают альтернативное лечение категорически, но предложить ничего не могут, и сбивают людей с толку. А хотя, может и лечаться только не пишут об этом.
Julia ~
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Ну почему же не могут, предлагают же и даже настаивают: антибиотики, урсосаны, нейролептики и пр., что является продуктами от Фармы..
Libra, традиционные методики - это те, которые имеют традиции. Те, которые Вы называете нетрадиционными имеют традиции на порядки выше, чем те, которые называете традиционными. Поэтому тут все наоборот. Вот "альтернативные" еще куда ни шло.. Но тоже - что чему альтернатива (?).
И позволю напомнить:
Поэтому Muss сообщила в этой теме об этом факте и где можно будет узнать информацию о нем, а кто начал осуждать "пчел", можете сами посмотреть.. Поэтому, Алекс32,
- написано.
Julia ~
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Ну да, ну да.., лучше быть кардиналом, наделенным властью над всем и вся, чтоб никакой Д´Артаньян не смел пикнуть..
А то, что продукты от пчел могут быть средствами от хронического нейроборрелиоза, Вас не интересует?
В этой ветке меня интересует информация-антибиотики при хр. нейро., а если бы захотелось почитать о пчелах, то в ветке про пчелы, не думаете? Вопроос риторический, кстати.
Julia ~
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Думаю, конечно! Причем уже давно.. Прямо и пишу то, что думаю, нет? Почитайте выше. В том числе, повторяю, и про антибиотики при хроническом нейро. И Muss об этом написала..
Вас никогда не посещала мысль, что антибиотики могут не быть средством от хронического нейро, мм?
Соня
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Если у больного есть какие-то воспалительные процессы помимо хр. боррелиоза, то антибиотики могут быть очень даже в тему. Ведь принимая АБ якобы от ЛБ , можно случайно параллельно вылечить старую болячку. Естественно, человеку полегчает.
Но я не видела никого, кто бы одними антибиотиками вылечил хр. ЛБ. Это правда.
Muss
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Спасибо Julia! Все именно так! Про антибиотики там тоже информация. Поэтому здесь поделилась.
Libra
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Юля, давайте не будем сводить все к названиям. Не думаю, что лечение БЛ пчелоужалением можно назвать "традиционным" в любом понимании этого слова.
Muss
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Сейчас будет точно сказано не в той ветке. Перегибаю палку, так сказать))) Но предполагаю, что после публикации нового исследования бвт станет традиционным. все же может быть?))
Julia ~
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Да. Потому что традиционно лечили (и кое-где продолжают) не болезнь или бактерию, а человека.
К названиям, определениям, понятиям и смыслам надо бы не сводить, а с них начинать, так как именно с них начинается построение картины, они определяют направление, путь (возможные перекосы), рост картины и ее узор.
Muss
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Новости от Евы Сапи:
WEST HAVEN >> For years, Eva Sapi was an ovarian cancer researcher, first as a post-doctoral researcher at the Yale School of Medicine and then at University of New Haven.
Then, she had a nasty bout with Lyme disease, a “horrible disease” that, as she put it, “made me realize that other diseases could be as important as ovarian cancer.”
Her own experience with an often-misunderstood disease that in her case initially was misdiagnosed changed the course of her professional life.
Now Sapi, an associate professor and University Research Scholar in UNH’s Department of Biology and Environmental Science, heads the university’s Lyme disease research group, working with more than 10 student researchers at a time
Together, they do groundbreaking research into the way borrelia burgdorferi, the bacteria that causes Lyme disease, can rearrange its structure, including by forming a slime-like “biofilm” that she believes enables the disease to “hide” during efforts to treat it with antibiotics.
The research investigates ways in which biofilm might allow borrelia to resist harsh environmental conditions such as antibiotic treatments.
Sapi’s work includes clinical trials with Curza, a Provo, Utah, pharmaceutical research company developing a new drug that aims to penetrate the biofilm to more effectively treat the disease.
Having done an initial clinical trial at UNH that found the drug to be 60 percent more effective in treating Lyme disease than traditional antiobiotics, Curza now is entering a second phase that at the University of California, Davis that will test the drug on mice.
But one drug may just be the tip of the iceberg, Sapi suggested.
Over a number of years, “We looked at over 100 different agents. The Curza one was one of them,” Sapi said. But “we found several agents which worked as well.”
One of the agents that worked particularly well as a possible treatment for Lyme disease was, of all things, Stevia, the natural sweetener, Sapi said.
“It actually worked very well for borrelia,” she said. “Bee venom also was very effective. So we have several agents that are at least as effective as the antibiotics.”
Lyme disease is a tick-borne, hard-to-diagnose illness named for the town of Lyme, where it was first identified in 1975. Early symptoms include an expanding red ring or rash that can appear around the tick bite, as well as flu-like symptoms such as fever, fatigue and muscle aches. Subsequent symptoms that can develop if the disease is not promptly treated can include heart problems, arthritis and neurologic problems.
On average since 1998, the state Department of Public Health has reported about 3,000 cases annually to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, but the CDC estimates that there are approximately 10 times more people diagnosed with Lyme disease than the yearly reported number.
That means, using the CDC estimate, that about 30,000 people are diagnosed with Lyme disease each year in Connecticut.
Sapi, a native of Hungary who earned her doctorate in genetics at Eotvos Lorand University in Budapest before coming to the U.S. for postdoctoral training in molecular biology at the Yale School of Medicine, also was urged to take on Lyme disease by her UNH dean at the time, who suggested that working at a smaller research institution, it might make sense for her to do research on something “state-related.”
“It was sort of a rocky road. I didn’t realize” at first “that asking certain questions was not allowed” within the tight-knit community of Lyme disease researchers.
Sapi’s research on the role of biofilm — which she says is “known to be almost impossible to eliminate it from the body” — has been controversial, with many of the doctors who treat Lyme disease continuing to do with a maximum of four weeks of antibiotics.
“After that, if you’re still sick, it has to be something else,” she said, describing the prevailing feelings that attribute any post-treatment sickness to something called “post-Lyme syndrome.”
Sapi first published research on her findings in 2012 in the online publication PLOS-ONE, a peer-reviewed, international science journal. She said that at one point, she organized a conference that some others in the field tried to shut down because of fears that it would propagate her way of thinking.
She currently is waiting for a new research paper, now in a second level of review, to get accepted “in a highly-rated journal.” The paper argues “that biofilm exists, can persist in the body and can find ways to hide,” she said.
If it is accepted, “it should at least open the door” to other forms of thinking, Sapi said.
“If people don’t want to study something, they should at least let someone else study it,” she said.
Among the other research done locally on Lyme disease is a 2012 study by the Yale University School of Medicine that found that while mice infected with borrelia burgdorferi responded to antibiotics, traces of proteins from the bacteria remained long after the bacteria itself had been wiped out.
The lead author of that study, Dr. Linda Bockenstedt, the Harold W. Jockers Professor of Medicine and Rheumatology at Yale School of Medicine, didn’t immediately return calls for comment on Sapi’s work, but has previously told the Connecticut Post, with regard to Sapi’s work, that it’s hard to make a good determination about the behavior of borrelia burgdorferi based solely on test tube research.
“Biofilm requires a certain number of bacteria in a small space to form,” Bockenstedt told the Post. “Whether it would form in a human or animal infected by a tick bite is not known.”
But Sapi’s research suggests that it’s not just proteins that get left behind.
The borrelia bacteria, which has been around for 15 to 20 million years, is “so smart” and has learned over all those years how to survive, she said. “Inside, they have different cells” which, like colonies of ants, have different tasks, Sapi said.
“Some of the cells are the sleepers,” she said, and “antibiotics don’t work on the sleepers.”
WEST HAVEN >> For years, Eva Sapi was an ovarian cancer researcher, first as a post-doctoral researcher at the Yale School of Medicine and then at University of New Haven.
Then, she had a nasty bout with Lyme disease, a “horrible disease” that, as she put it, “made me realize that other diseases could be as important as ovarian cancer.”
Her own experience with an often-misunderstood disease that in her case initially was misdiagnosed changed the course of her professional life.
Now Sapi, an associate professor and University Research Scholar in UNH’s Department of Biology and Environmental Science, heads the university’s Lyme disease research group, working with more than 10 student researchers at a time
Together, they do groundbreaking research into the way borrelia burgdorferi, the bacteria that causes Lyme disease, can rearrange its structure, including by forming a slime-like “biofilm” that she believes enables the disease to “hide” during efforts to treat it with antibiotics.
The research investigates ways in which biofilm might allow borrelia to resist harsh environmental conditions such as antibiotic treatments.
Sapi’s work includes clinical trials with Curza, a Provo, Utah, pharmaceutical research company developing a new drug that aims to penetrate the biofilm to more effectively treat the disease.
Having done an initial clinical trial at UNH that found the drug to be 60 percent more effective in treating Lyme disease than traditional antiobiotics, Curza now is entering a second phase that at the University of California, Davis that will test the drug on mice.
But one drug may just be the tip of the iceberg, Sapi suggested.
Over a number of years, “We looked at over 100 different agents. The Curza one was one of them,” Sapi said. But “we found several agents which worked as well.”
One of the agents that worked particularly well as a possible treatment for Lyme disease was, of all things, Stevia, the natural sweetener, Sapi said.
“It actually worked very well for borrelia,” she said. “Bee venom also was very effective. So we have several agents that are at least as effective as the antibiotics.”
Lyme disease is a tick-borne, hard-to-diagnose illness named for the town of Lyme, where it was first identified in 1975. Early symptoms include an expanding red ring or rash that can appear around the tick bite, as well as flu-like symptoms such as fever, fatigue and muscle aches. Subsequent symptoms that can develop if the disease is not promptly treated can include heart problems, arthritis and neurologic problems.
On average since 1998, the state Department of Public Health has reported about 3,000 cases annually to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, but the CDC estimates that there are approximately 10 times more people diagnosed with Lyme disease than the yearly reported number.
That means, using the CDC estimate, that about 30,000 people are diagnosed with Lyme disease each year in Connecticut.
Sapi, a native of Hungary who earned her doctorate in genetics at Eotvos Lorand University in Budapest before coming to the U.S. for postdoctoral training in molecular biology at the Yale School of Medicine, also was urged to take on Lyme disease by her UNH dean at the time, who suggested that working at a smaller research institution, it might make sense for her to do research on something “state-related.”
“It was sort of a rocky road. I didn’t realize” at first “that asking certain questions was not allowed” within the tight-knit community of Lyme disease researchers.
Sapi’s research on the role of biofilm — which she says is “known to be almost impossible to eliminate it from the body” — has been controversial, with many of the doctors who treat Lyme disease continuing to do with a maximum of four weeks of antibiotics.
“After that, if you’re still sick, it has to be something else,” she said, describing the prevailing feelings that attribute any post-treatment sickness to something called “post-Lyme syndrome.”
Sapi first published research on her findings in 2012 in the online publication PLOS-ONE, a peer-reviewed, international science journal. She said that at one point, she organized a conference that some others in the field tried to shut down because of fears that it would propagate her way of thinking.
She currently is waiting for a new research paper, now in a second level of review, to get accepted “in a highly-rated journal.” The paper argues “that biofilm exists, can persist in the body and can find ways to hide,” she said.
If it is accepted, “it should at least open the door” to other forms of thinking, Sapi said.
“If people don’t want to study something, they should at least let someone else study it,” she said.
Among the other research done locally on Lyme disease is a 2012 study by the Yale University School of Medicine that found that while mice infected with borrelia burgdorferi responded to antibiotics, traces of proteins from the bacteria remained long after the bacteria itself had been wiped out.
The lead author of that study, Dr. Linda Bockenstedt, the Harold W. Jockers Professor of Medicine and Rheumatology at Yale School of Medicine, didn’t immediately return calls for comment on Sapi’s work, but has previously told the Connecticut Post, with regard to Sapi’s work, that it’s hard to make a good determination about the behavior of borrelia burgdorferi based solely on test tube research.
“Biofilm requires a certain number of bacteria in a small space to form,” Bockenstedt told the Post. “Whether it would form in a human or animal infected by a tick bite is not known.”
But Sapi’s research suggests that it’s not just proteins that get left behind.
The borrelia bacteria, which has been around for 15 to 20 million years, is “so smart” and has learned over all those years how to survive, she said. “Inside, they have different cells” which, like colonies of ants, have different tasks, Sapi said.
“Some of the cells are the sleepers,” she said, and “antibiotics don’t work on the sleepers.”
pin-up
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Меня смутила фраза“Bee venom also was very effective. So we have several agents that are at least as effective as the antibiotics.” Тоесть если они по-эффективности как антибиотики, то не проще ли выпить таблетку антибиотика? Зачем все усложнять?
Muss
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Механизм действия разный. Я бы сказала, что антибиотики еще больше усложняют , чем пчелы. Ведь там нужна не одна таблетка, верно? Ну и в конце там читали? Антибиотики не действуют на cells sleepers.
